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Game of Thones Eps 3-4 notes - alley_skywalker [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
alley_skywalker

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Game of Thones Eps 3-4 notes [Apr. 27th, 2015|02:06 am]
alley_skywalker
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SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

5.3
-It is sooo weird to see Tommen and Margeary in bed. I know that in the show he's supposed to be more like, IDK, what? 15-16? But in the book he's like 10 or something. Basically, certainly not old enough to be having sex.
-On a related note. It's getting REALLY hard for me to not hate Margeary. She's manipulating Tommen in the most horrid way, and it's really obvious and he's just too young and naive to have any idea. She's clinging to power, which, ok, a lot of people on this show do. But I don't have to like her despite it. I don't give Cersei that pass, at any rate. (Of all the types of bitchery, the I'm-such-a-sweathear-to-your-face-but-do-nasty-stuff-behind-your-back is the type I cannot stad AT ALL.)
-BUT what the above has made me think...if they're still going with the book plot of Cersei trying to set Margeary up, the decision will be a lot more sympathetic than it was in the books. Personally, I kind of want to punch Margeary in the face right now, and it's not even my son she's manipulating.
-WELL if there's any indication that the show is massively starting to overthrow the books, it's that the REAL SANSA is going to marry Ramsy. Like, argh, why? Is it just that otherwise they would have nothing for Sansa to do and tv shows don't work in a way where a major character can just disapear for a season? IDK. It's just too weird.
-Also, wtf, Littlefinger? Supposedly you care for her so much, but don't you know what an abusive, twisted fuck Ramsy is? Like why would you give Sansa to him of all people?
-Aww Podrick, you're such a darling <3
-Gosh I still miss Renly :( And this episode has reminded me just how much.
-So, Jon's steward...not Satin :(

5.4
-Jaime, my GOD, baby, Bron is right, why ARE you doing this. This is insane. OMG. BUt seriously, wtf? I don't think Jaime, in the books, was very terribly fussed about Tyrion killing Tywin. Not in an "I'm gonna kill him" way. Actually, this is reversed from the book. There, Tyrion is the one who wanted to kill Jaime (while still being kind of sentimental about him despite himself) and Jaime's anger was aimed at Cersei. Here, Jaime is trying to make things up to Cersei, seemingly, and is the one who's pissed at Tyrion. ...If I wasn't noticing the characterization changes much before, I certainly am now.
-Oh, Cersei. You have just dug your own grave, so to speak.
-I don't like Stannis much at all. But that scene with Shireen, just awwwww.
-Oh, Jorah-Jorah.
-Have I mentioned that I'm terrified for Jaime? Here's another reason why: remember Arys Oakheart? Yea. Also no prophecy about a valonqar. It's just all adding up... Guys. Guys, I don't think I could stand it if they kill Jaime. Like, just the thought makes me want to cry. (Also...given that Jaime seems to be walking into a trap at the end of ADWD, if he dies this season that means he...will likely die in WOW. OMG, fuck this, I can't take this! Seriously!)
-Selmy's death was unexpected. But somehow I feel like he's not the big off everyone keeps talking about. It just seems too...IDK, easy or something.
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Comments:
[User Picture]From: your_insomnia
2015-04-27 05:40 pm (UTC)
Omg, I was confused about the Jaime change in the show, because it's like how are they going to work in Brienne's betrayal? And you're right, the only way they could work it in if he dies in both versions. Noooo. Holy shit, please no.

I'm actually on board with the Sansa change because it makes the whole Theon rescue plan much more meaningful.

I feel like the show is making Cersei more sympathetic by villifying Margery. I was so relishing Cersei's takedown in the books...not sure about it here :(.
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[User Picture]From: alley_skywalker
2015-04-27 08:45 pm (UTC)
Yea...The only 3 people I seriously care about are Jaime, Tyrion and Sansa. And Jaime is definitely my overwhelming favorite so... But even aside from that, what pisses me off is that his death would be kind of useless from a storytelling perspective. Like, what purpose - plot, symbolic or otherwise - could it serve? Assuming it's at the hands of UnCat. Revenge for the Starks? But Jaime wasn't really the one to cause all their troubles (other than Bran's injury) so that seems kind of weak. Besides, GRRM isn't exactly a "cosmic justice" sort of guy. What's the point of building Jaime up so much just for him to die via UnCat? Unless, of course, he still dies in WoW in some other way. But I feel like if it was meaningful at all the show would include that plotline. Because while Martin is not influenced by "fan favoritism" the shows far more likely is. (Because tons of book readers like Jaime and are watching the show, at the least.) And, to add to the feeling of dread, I just don't see this kidnapping Marcella plan succeeding.

Yea, from the standpoint of Theon, the change definitely makes things more interesting. It's just weird because it's so radically different from the books.

I can't say I was relishing Cersei's takedown. Mainly because I'm usually VERY upset by humiliation and fall-from-power/wealth scenarios. In a way where these sort of situations have resulted in mini panic attacks before. I don't always have such an extreme reaction, it kind of depends on the surrounding circumstances and my own state of mind at the moment I'm reading/watching it but I almost never feel positively about these sort of things. It takes a very intense sort of hatred for a character for me to get into that. And I never quite hated Cersei that much. But yea, the show has definitely made Cersei more sympathetic so...not looking forward to that whole thing at all, hah.

Edited at 2015-04-27 08:45 pm (UTC)
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[User Picture]From: ars_belli
2015-04-29 09:10 pm (UTC)
I've only seen 5x01 so far — using the other eps as a reward to finish a project on which I'm working. However, I have finished Dance. I must be the only book reader happy that the show is making so many changes, otherwise I would know how everything pans out beforehand.

It is sooo weird to see Tommen and Margeary in bed.
O.O We know that in S2 Joffrey is 16 turning 17, so Tommen has to be 17 at most in S5. But I still estimate him as 13/14-ish. TBH I think it's a direct parallel to Tyrion's marriage to Sansa when she is, what, 13? Any other husband — especially an ambitious Tyrell — would have bedded her at that age: now Margery is doing the same to Tommen, just with a gender-flip. Urgfh. :(

On a related note. It's getting REALLY hard for me to not hate Margeary.
Seconded. At least when Cersei seduces people in the books, they're grown men who ought to know better! How is Cersei going to set her up? If Margery is bedding Tommen, there's no scandal about her losing her virginity to someone who cannot possibly be Tommen.

REAL SANSA is going to marry Ramsy.
That does make a weird kind of sense, right? Except it's Littlefinger pulling the strings, not Tywin. Makes me wonder whether it isn't LF who really "owns" the Boltons in the books too...

Also, wtf, Littlefinger? Supposedly you care for her so much,
Isn't that exactly the point? LF says outright that he only ever loved Cat — while Sansa was present — so he's willing to use anyone who isn't Catelyn. Including his creepy Cat-substitute. For all her growing up, Sansa still doesn't see that, she still wants to believe that there is someone with whom she will be safe.

I don't think Jaime, in the books, was very terribly fussed about Tyrion killing Tywin.
In the books, Cersei doesn't know that Jaime set Tyrion free, right? (Mind you, he doesn't care about the Lannister legacy in the books either.) Maybe he's actually starting to realise that he's essentially destroyed the rest of his House by setting Tyrion free, including his sister and children. That would make me want to reverse my decision, quick smart. There's no debt owed in the TV show, either which is totally confusing. Why set Tyrion free at all then?

Have I mentioned that I'm terrified for Jaime? Here's another reason why: remember Arys Oakheart?
Nah, I doubt they'll kill Jaime in Dorne. Jaime has to live, to be the valonqar, so that he and Cerse can die together in Casterly Rock. It;s the only way that Martin's themes work. Unless, of course, we assume that Martin is deliberately shattering all of the mediaeval tropes. Cersei's fixation that the twins have to die together because they were born together is the most classically romantic trope of them all. What if she's wrong about this and right about the valonqar, when the audience is convinced it's the other way around — just as they are convinced that Ned Stark was always honourable? Eeek, stop me please, the more I type, the more this makes sense!

Selmy's death was unexpected.
Well, I guess that means he's done for in Winds. Shame, now Danaerys won't get *any* good advice.
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[User Picture]From: alley_skywalker
2015-04-29 11:12 pm (UTC)
How is Cersei going to set her up? If Margery is bedding Tommen, there's no scandal about her losing her virginity to someone who cannot possibly be Tommen.
I don’t know, maybe she won’t. But adultery would still be considered treason, IIRC? Maybe something to do with that.

For all her growing up, Sansa still doesn't see that, she still wants to believe that there is someone with whom she will be safe.
I don’t think she feels safe with LIttlefinger really. More that he manipulates her into believing that this is her choice and that she now has agency and is taking control of things.

In the books, Cersei doesn't know that Jaime set Tyrion free, right?
No, I believe she doesn’t.

Mind you, he doesn't care about the Lannister legacy in the books either…There's no debt owed in the TV show, either which is totally confusing. Why set Tyrion free at all then?
Yea, you’re right. Although…I don’t think Jaime cares about the lineage as much as he cares about the wellbeing of people who are important to him. I think that’s not that far off from book!Jaime. It’s Cersei who’s really into the whole “he built this for us” thing. And I think Jaime set Tyrion free more because he actually cares about his brother than because of the debt thing. Maybe I just don’t remember SoS well enough, but I came away with the impression that Jaime told Tyrion the truth out of guilt, but not so much that he set him free out of guilt. I don’t think Jaime is convinced that Tyrion killed Joff.


I doubt they'll kill Jaime in Dorne. Jaime has to live, to be the valonqar, so that he and Cerse can die together in Casterly Rock…Unless, of course, we assume that Martin is deliberately shattering all of the mediaeval tropes.
Well, we’ve definitely seen Martin kill off characters for “subversive” value. But while it would be terribly anti-climactic for Jaime to die at the hands of UnCat given all his build up, it wouldn’t be anticlimactic for him to die in Dorne, depending on how it is played out. Also, the Marcella plot can only work two ways: either a) they get Marcella out of Dorne or b) they don’t. And if they don’t get her out but nothing else significant happens, then this is a wasted plotline. But if they fail and someone dies, there’s at least some emotional/plot value there. (Also…kinda mirrors Quent’s fruitless, ill-advised adventure.) I really can’t imagine the consequences of if they succeed in getting Marcella out of Dorne. This will lead to either something completely out of left field or to events that we haven’t yet seen in the books yet. The other problem is that if Jaime succeeds, or at least comes back alive to King’s Landing, and there’s no Riverrun plot for him to be a part of, why would he not be around during Cersei’s downfall? Why would he not act as her Champion? Especially if he’s right there in King’s Landing.
IDK, I feel like I’m psyching myself out but changes are driving me crazy because I don’t know how it’s all going to fit together and SO MANY THINGS could go wrong :(

Well, I guess that means he's done for in Winds. Shame, now Danaerys won't get *any* good advice.
Unless Jorah and Tyrion get to her.
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